“LinkedIn Lead Generation” Presented By Jake Jorgovan


Video Transcript

Jake:                         I'll give a quick intro and just everyone that I'm super excited to share today. I'm gonna give you guys a ton of tactics on LinkedIn Outreach and how you can actually run your own and generate leads. So we're going to dive into some good stuff today there, but I'll let you kick it off or anything else you want to say before I can dive into the presentation.

Kai Davis:               Excellent. So this is the second time I've seen this presentation, my friends. I have to say it's one of the best presentations on using Linkedin, on Linkedin Outreach that I've seen. As jake and I were chatting about beforehand, a number of my one-on-one coaching students, a number of my colleagues took the first version of this presentation they saw, implemented it for their business and saw great, great results. I'm really, really excited to have Jake as a guest expert today to help teach us how to use Linkedin to get more leads. Jake, I'll uh, pass it over to you and we could kick it off.

Jake:                         Sounds good. I will get the presentation pulled up here. And let me know, can you guys all see the presentation on your side? Gonna take that as a yes.

Kai Davis:               I think there's a slight lag. And for folks that are asking, I guess we will be sending out a recording post-call that'll go out about one to two days after this webinar wraps up, and folks are saying yes, they can see it. So I think we are good to dive on in.

Jake:                         All right, sounds good. Well, everyone, today I'm going to be sharing with you a complete system and framework on how to use Linkedin to generate leads. And so I run a company called Lead Cookie where we're a done-for-you Linkedin prospecting service, but in today's call, I'm literally going to give you all the secrets, all the tactics of what we actually do at our company and how we generate leads. Give you the scripts, the frameworks, all of it there. So before we dive into that though, what I want to do is start off sharing that before I was actually running a company doing LinkedIn Outreach, I was consulting and I was basically focused around this idea of how do agencies and consultants win new clients, and this was really the core focus of what I was doing and I was consistently working with companies, testing tactics out of myself and my clients to figure out what are the best ways to help really get new business.

Jake:                         And along that journey, at some point I started to realize that I was getting a lot of customers from LinkedIn and I wasn't even being really that intentional about this, but I would just kind of hop on LinkedIn every couple days, post things, leave a comment. I was just kind of barely using it and I was getting customers from LinkedIn just kind of by accident almost. And so at some point I realized, "Okay, there's, there's definitely opportunity here." And so I wanted to really dive into this deeper and figure out what is the best tactics you can use on LinkedIn. So at that point, what I did is I went out and I just went on a quest to research and learn everything I could on LinkedIn. So I looked at all the thought leaders like Josh Turner and John Nimmo and what all these guys were doing and talking about as the best tactics to use on LinkedIn.

Jake:                         And I started basically running and using those tactics from my own consulting business to get new customers. And what I found from it was I was really amazed at the results. In the first 30 days, I booked 11 phone calls. I had another 19 leads, I was still working, and then within two months, I actually closed three deals just from all this LinkedIn Outreach. So I was just blown away by this, and it was like, wow, that, that produced results quicker than any other tactic that I've tried. I have a lot of other great channels that have been effective, but this was just really quick, and it started immediately producing results. And so that was a point where basically, I decided I was going to kick up and start what has now become Lead Cookie, which is where we're doing done-for-you LinkedIn prospecting.

Jake:                         And so, basically, our company at this point now has run over, actually, I think this number is up to 80. I didn't actually update this presentation or this number between our past calls, but I believe this, we're right around 80 campaigns on LinkedIn. And so through that we have learned a ton of stuff on what works, what doesn't work, and how to make LinkedIn campaigns effective. And so on today's call, I'm going to share with you what those look like. I'm gonna give you the scripts and the frameworks and how to make that successful. So here's the agenda on what we're going to cover today. First, I'm going to talk about what we've learned running those roughly 80 campaigns on LinkedIn for different Outreach campaigns and different types of companies. Second, I'm going to give you the exact process we use to generate leads.

Jake:                         And then third, I want to teach you how to actually nurture those leads and give you some tips there because just because you get someone responding and engaging on Linkedin, you probably also need to get them onto a call and actually make a sale. So I'm gonna give you a few tips there on just how to actually nurture and move those leads from LinkedIn to actual phone call. So to start off, let's dive into what we learned running those 80 campaigns. So the first really important thing we learned is that niching wins. So basically, what we found is that if you have a narrow niche and a good value proposition, you're going to see great results with this.

Jake:                         If your kind of niche or your value proposition is kind of a little weak or unvalidated or untested yet, you might see some good results, but it's probably not gonna be amazing. And if you're a generalist and you say, "I do web development for anybody in the world" or "I do SEO and PPC for small businesses," you're probably not going to get that many results. And so having that narrow niche and that value proposition is insanely important to this, this tactic and really, any marketing. But one of the things we came, we've came to realize through this is if you don't have that, there's a failure. And so one of the examples is that we had this generalist design agency in San Francisco. These guys were super reputable. They had a great portfolio and client list.

Jake:                         They'd even been in the industry working for 20 years and all this stuff that they hardly got any engagement just because they were kind of generalists and we were reaching out as a generalist. Now we were able to actually pivot them and say, "Hey, let's narrow your LinkedIn down and let's focus on nonprofits because over 50 percent of their work was nonprofits", and as soon as we changed the messaging and the targeting to saying "Design agency or focusing on nonprofits" or "We help nonprofits through web and promotional design." I can't remember the exact tagline, but as soon as we narrowed down on that nonprofit niche, we immediately start getting results and phone calls and they were actually getting business out of it. So if you're a generalist, you're just going after any business out there, you're not going to see much results with this, so you've got to narrow down and get focused on a specific value proposition.

Jake:                         Another example of a success we had was a kind of a specialist software development shop in Birmingham and their tagline was "I help blue collar companies automate manual processes with custom software", and again in the first couple months there, we generated 63 leads for them and they consistently, we're booking phone calls and getting opportunities from this. They worked with us for over 10 months actually operating and running their profiles. So that very specific focus, saying we work with manufacturing and HVAC, kind of this blue collar industry companies, and helping them automate processes through software led to really good results and really good response rate for them.

Jake:                         So what we kind of learned from this and the way we like to kind of think about this is that basically, this is kind of a formula for if you're going to see results from this. You have your value proposition here, you have your niching, whatever it is you do and who you serve, and then you have this LinkedIn Outreach tactics that I'm going to teach you. As I said, we've run 80 of these campaigns at this point. And so if you basically realize that we're running the exact same scripts and framework, we're doing the exact same four types of messages over and over again. And the only thing that's changing is really the value proposition and the messaging for that individual person. But we have some people who are literally like, "Hey, whoa, slow it down. I have too many leads", and we have people saying that. And on the other flip side, we have people early when we didn't realize this formula, that were generalists and they were just literally getting nothing. It was just no responses.

Jake:                         And so without that kind of niche value proposition and something that's validated here, you're not gonna see results here. And if you're not seeing results, I challenge you that it's not the tactic that's the problem. The problem is probably in your value proposition here. So that is one of the really big important things we learned, and I can't stress this enough. The other thing we learned is basically that this is going to be a decent time investment. If you're going to run this tactic on your own, you're looking at probably about 90 minutes per day to kind of run these tactics on your own. There's pieces of this you can do with Duck Soup and some LinkedIn helper and some tools out there that might get it down to about an hour a day. But it's still a good amount of time if you handle this on your own. If you end up hiring a virtual assistant, which we see a lot of people do, or you end up hiring our service, Lead Cookie, you're looking at about a 20 minute per day investment where you're actually focused on just handling the responses of the leads that come through to you.

Jake:                         So that just again gives you an idea on just what that time investment looks like, and again, it sounds like, kinda like people in your audience have taken this. They're actually running with it, so they're putting in that time, you could scale some of this back and not go full speed and get that down to maybe 30 to 60 minutes a day, but it will take some time to ramp these up on your own.  The other thing we learned is you need to start slowly, and you need to have LinkedIn Sales Navigator to do these tactics. So everything I'm teaching you today, you must have LinkedIn Sales Navigator, not premium and not free, or you won't be able to do the volume of approach that we're taking. Now the other thing is if you don't touch your LinkedIn for years and it just sits there and then one day you get on and you start sending 100 connection requests per day, they're going to kind of freak out and say, "Hey, I think your profile got hacked".

Jake:                         So what you need to do is, and you start doing these, ramp this up, do 20 on the first few days, do 40 the next few days, and over the course of about two weeks, get up to 100 outbound connection requests, which I'll explain a bit more later, but basically everything we teach you here kind of slowly ramped that up over two weeks. You can kind of test things, get used to the process and so you don't trigger anything within LinkedIn. So those are kind of some of the key pieces of what we learned. But now I want to dive into the cookie cutter lead generation process. So this is the exact process that we're using to generate leads on LinkedIn. So within that, there are three ingredients to this cookie cutter process. The first is that we basically do the profile optimization, getting your profile ready and optimized to convert. The second is going to be sending outbound connection requests, and along with that, we're going to send some drip messages.

Jake:                         The third is how we're going to ramp up traffic to your profile and get more eyeballs on your LinkedIn profile using some very cool little tricks and tactics. So the first piece here in terms of the linked in profile optimization. So there is a ton of stuff you can do on LinkedIn. If you haven't already, there's like a little bar when you start building your LinkedIn profile., let's try and get you up to 100 percent on having everything complete. Obviously go through that is, that's kind of like the baseline, but really, within the LinkedIn profile optimization, there's the 80/20 of what we're looking at to generate results and to get people interested. And so there's two main tweaks that we recommend to people. The first is going to be getting your headline optimized. And so in your LinkedIn profile, right underneath your name, you're going to see this little headline and right here, this was what mine was when I was consulting. So I help agencies and consultants win their dream clients. And so this is super important having this headline here, because basically this is, follows you all over LinkedIn.

Jake:                         So when you post something in the news feed, this shows up and it's kind of right there under your name, when you are a show up in the Who's Viewed Your Profile section, the tagline's there. It shows up in the messenger window, it shows up pretty much all over LinkedIn. This kind of follows you around and literally just sits underneath your name. And the key thing here is that most people just put president or CEO or agency owner or something there and they aren't using this to kind of put a positioning statement that's going to hook someone in. And so the simple "I help x do or accomplish why?" is a great framework a simple thing you can do to kind of hook people in and really get them interested. So optimization number one is change that tag line from that simple kind of title to actually a benefit-oriented statement.

Jake:                         The second tweak is that when you get to the body copy of your profile and the description under your company or whatever you're listed there is that it should not just be resume style about you. That's how LinkedIn started, as this kind of place for resumes. But what you really want to do here is make this more like a sales page. You want to talk about what you do, who you serve, what benefits it brings them. Think of kind of the standard kind of sales page marketing where you would basically be talking about your customers, the problems you solve for them and why you can help them and everything. So taking that simple framework and not just giving your life story but instead talking about who you serve and how you help them is really kind of the next big tweak to get into that profile.

Jake:                         So those, there's a lot more you can do on the profile optimization. But again, those are the two primary tweaks I would say you'd want to do as a baseline before getting started with this. The second piece of this, the second ingredient here is going to be the actual lead generation piece of it. And so with this, basically, it is really, really simple, what we're going to ask you to do here. You're going to get into LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and if you've ever used it before, you've got all these super advanced search criterias over here on the left where you can get really, really targeted on how to do your actual LinkedIn Outreach. And basically, what you're going to do is put that search queue together and you're then going to start sending messages to people and you're going to send a kind of a really casual connection request script here.

Jake:                         Um, so you're gonna send something saying, "Hey, I was browsing your profile and notice where we work in a similar space, so I thought I'd reach out to connect." So something very casual. This is like a very vanilla version of it. You can definitely try to tweak or customize the message as well accordingly, but really just trying to get something. The goal of this first message is that you're sending then, this connection request is to really just try to get them to accept your connections. You're not trying to make a pitch, you're just trying to open the door because when they accept this, you now have the ability to send them multiple more connection requests.

Jake:                         Now the one thing I do typically do is I put my tagline here underneath my name, and sometimes you'll have people that literally, from that connection request, will inquire or one-hop on a call if you've got a good value proposition. So again, simple, the goal of that first connection request, it's simply to get them to accept so you can start that conversation. Now what you're going to eventually do is, again, you're going to ramp this up over about two weeks, but you're going to start to send about 100 of those connection requests per day where you really, what you do is kind of customize the first name and then you kind of start going, you can really kind of believe the rest of that rather template-

Jake:                         And you kind of start going, you can really kind of leave the rest of that rather templated and kind of use that approach. If you've got a really small niche market, you can kind of take a more personal approach to it. But now with a lot of what we do or if you've got a large market, you can do this set about 100 per day. What we typically see somewhere around 15 to 30% of those people will accept, definitely changes a bit varied based on industry and your value proposition. but that's just kind of a rough framework of how many people accept.

Jake:                         And when someone accepts what we're gonna do is we're going to drip them at non salesy messages over time. And so what we're not going to do though, is we're not just going to go start blasting them with sales pitches, we're going to kind of follow this simple framework here. First we're going to send that connection request, which is the goal to just get accepted. Then second, we're going to ask them a question to try to facilitate a conversation. So my question, whenever I'm reaching out is, hey, what are your primary lead generation channels? By asking this to people, I get them talking about lead generation. I get some people that say, "Hey, word of mouth and referrals." I have other of people that say, "Hey, we're doing PaperClick, Facebook ads, we've got strategic partnerships." So I get all of these kinds of different responses and those form the basis of what can become a conversation. And it helps me kind of qualify or disqualify a lead a bit to understand where they're at.

Jake:                         Some people respond back and they say, "We've got referrals and there's more work than we can handle." And it's like, cool. So they don't really need my help. So thinking of what question you can ask to kind of provoke around your value proposition, again, it's just super valuable. It's just the great way to kind of get that conversation going and kind of build trust. If they don't answer that question, what you're going to do is then you're going to basically send a useful article over and typically we'll wait about one to two weeks between that question and sending over an article, but again, you're not going to want to send over just like five tips kind of approach. You want to send over something engaging, something that's going to position you and really provide value to them as well. I don't recommend sending podcasts or long videos or stuff like that. That's kind of a big commitment to ask for someone, so really would recommend sending something that's ... they could click skim in about 60 seconds to two minutes and actually engage with you there. So keep it something simple short and to the point and again, try to ask another question on that and provoke a conversation there.

Jake:                         Then in the fourth and final message of the drip, you're going to ask for a meeting. You're actually going to make a straightforward pitch and say, "Hey, was browsing your profile [morm 00:18:43] thought it could be worthwhile to connect. This is what I do, this is how we help and I think I could help you. Would you be open to a quick conversation to talk more?" So again, you'll notice is that we're not selling in these first three messages. We're taking a very slow casual conversation starting approach. And through starting those conversations we're then going to kind of nurture and build those relationships over time.

Jake:                         But this entire thing is built on the philosophy that people like to buy. They don't like to be sold. And so this is kind of the whole mentality here waiting until that last one to even make a pitch. And I'll tell you that even if you go do this on your own and the drips are kind of hard to do, if you go run this on your own, just do steps one and two and you will see results in that. Just in these two, even if you never ever pitched someone but you just send connection requests and ask questions to start conversations, you will see results and get customers out of that if you stick with even just those two pieces there.

Jake:                         So the other thing I'll say is that if you do want to go and get the actual more details on the scripts or anything, if you go to lead cookie.com/ebook, I do have some scripts there and everything where you can actually go get those for free and I don't even require an opt in. So you can just come snag that Ebook can actually get all the scripts that we use for that outreach. Now that is kind of the, again, the core piece of it, these connection requests, sending out those messages and starting conversations there. But if there's, say if that's too much work for you or you don't have time, the next tactic here is one. This is actually the first tactic that I started using on LinkedIn which started generating results for me. And this is how you ramp up traffic to your profile and you can do this in literally a couple of minutes each day.

Jake:                         So basically what I'm going to recommend is that you use this tool called Dux-Soup. What this tool is it's this Google Chrome extension and what it does is you install it in Chrome and you put together a LinkedIn search, a sales navigator search queue. Then you're going to go set that and you can go visit 500 profiles of people per day. You can do more, I typically sit safely at 500, and I really only use Dux-Soup for these profile visits. You can use it for connection requests, which some of you might want to use. But for our sakes, we do our connection requests by hand. And we use duck soup just for profile visiting. Basically what happens when you go and visit 500 profiles of people per day. Well, basically for 2,500 people a week, you start showing up in this who's viewed your profile section.

Jake:                         When someone clicks on that, it brings up this list of, of all these people that have viewed their profiles. And what you'll see here again, is the name of the person, their picture. And then here is their headline and so basically again, you can kind of see a little bit of information about these people and if your headline is there and you hook someone and intrigue them in that headline, then they click into your profile and will basically see, it may be intrigued, they may add you as a connection request. So what we typically see is somewhere between 5 to 30 inbound connection requests coming every single week as a result of using these tactics and using this Dux-Soup approach. And again, whenever someone sends those, what we'll typically do is go through, maybe ignore some if they're not a right fit, but then when someone accepts them I would say, "Hey, so and so, thanks for reaching out to connect. I was browsing your website and noticed and kind of have a personal touch there. Can I ask why you added me as a connection on Linkedin?"

Jake:                         And then I put my name and my tagline here. Literally one of the first customers I landed from this tactic, I said this kind of answer I said this question to them, and they said, "Well, your value proposition is hard to ignore. I'm looking to get new customers." We hopped on a call, they became a customer. So again, just this very simple, it's these leads, you don't get as many as the outbound connections, but they almost come in this kind of inbound manner where you're kind of hooking them and they don't even, I don't really understand or realize what just happened. They were just browsing LinkedIn and suddenly stumbled on you. But it's a really interesting, great way to generate leads and you can, Dux-Soup does all that for you. So you can literally set this to just run a few minutes every day and basically just walk away from your computer and let it do its thing.

Jake:                         So in terms of the results, just what you can expect if you do this. What we see is most of our customers where we're doing the 100 outbound connections per day and they have a good value proposition is they're typically getting, 4 to 20 qualified leads per month. That's kind of people that are getting on the phone they're talking with that are seriously engaging as potential customers. So if you've got a good value proposition, definitely great results there. And if you've got the capacity to go full speed then this can work great for you. If you can't go full speed, you could still do this and still get several calls each month booked and still get great results from this.

Jake:                         So the last section I want to go into here is everything I've told you so far as the baseline for how to generate leads. But we've had a lot of customers and we learned this the hard way that you've got to learn how to nurture and get these leads from LinkedIn onto a phone call otherwise it's all pointless. There's a lot of things you can do to totally screw that up along the way. So here is just a handful of tips on how to actually nurture these leads. The first tip is don't be super salesy. As you notice this entire approach is conversational, it's trying to start a dialogue. The biggest mistake you could make is to do all these questions and have someone respond back and say, "Oh yeah, I get my leads through word of mouth and referrals," and then just immediately say, "Oh, hey, I do LinkedIn outreach. Would you want to buy our service and here, would you like to schedule a call with me? Here's a booking widget."

Jake:                         That is the wrong way to go about it. Instead, what you want to do is you want to be conversational, you want to wait to pitch, and you want to try to kind of just have a conversation, learn more about the person's pain points and only when they kind of really unveil a pain point through the conversation, do you make an actual pitch or when they really reveal that that you think you can help them or you're really confident that you could based on what they're sharing. So don't be super salesy, don't go just trying to pitch right away when someone engages. You've got to take it slow, nurture that conversation and build trust up with them over time.

Jake:                         Again, what I'm trying to say here is, start conversations and don't try to close the deal on LinkedIn. I've also had some of our customers where they wrote back these gigantic essays and trying to basically make the pitch. Your goal when it's on Linkedin is to get it off of LinkedIn, get it to an email. Then from an email, get it to a phone call. Or you can do a count, I recommend using booking widgets or something to basically get them onto that phone call as easily as possible so you can then make the sale on the phone call. So don't try to sell everything, you're just trying to create enough interest and intrigue on Linkedin to actually get them to the phone call and that next stage.

Jake:                         The other tip with this is to really research before you respond and personalize. So it's really easy to just start blasting through these. You see someone's message and then just not even look at their LinkedIn profile and respond to them based on whatever they said. But you're going to see a lot more results if you can actually research and respond. So this guy said, "Hey, Jake went and trolled through your site and I'm genuinely interested in the process and what it all looks like at the end of the day." So this was someone that came through the Dux-Soup visit process and he actually went through and looked at the website as a result of that and added me as a connection. So I said, "Hey jerry, that's great to hear. I'm equally intrigued by Super Top Secret as well, which was his agency. Love the Far Cry work you guys did. I played the hell out of the early Far Cry games several years ago." So they did some design work for video games. So I complimented them on that, showed that I also reviewed his website as well. I said, "Let's set up a time to talk more. You can grab a slot on my schedule here." So again, gave him, um, booking widget made it personal and again, converted this one over to a phone call.

Jake:                         The other thing you want to do is ask questions to both qualify the prospect and position yourself at the same time. So this is very useful, especially if you get someone and you're not really sure if they're a good lead or you're trying to kind of validate that fit. What you'd want to do is kind of ask them a question to qualify. So this guy, he says, "Hey, cool, let me know more about what you do," smiley face. So I said, "Sure thing Paul. I focused on helping agencies and consulting companies win more clients through a mixture of consulting and outreach services. Your list for our Brandtastic looks quite impressive. I'm curious, how do you get most of your clients?"

Jake:                         So again, what I'm doing here is asking a question. I looked at his website, I complemented their client lists, and then I'm just trying to provoke a question to again help qualify this and also kind of move the conversation around client acquisition, which is kind of what I'm offering and focusing on there. So again, ask questions to keep that conversation going. What I like to say is that every single LinkedIn message should end with either a question or a call to action for a phone call. So you should never let it just kind of dead end the conversation without leaving some sort of next step that's going to toss the conversation back to them or the next action back to them.

Jake:                         Then the last tip here is really just to move the conversation to email or phone. So you don't want to try to schedule on LinkedIn. That's really hard so try to use typically a booking widget or get them to give you their email, so you can follow up and schedule something that way. But don't try to close the thing on LinkedIn and your goal is really to move the conversation off of there. So that is really what I have to cover today and at this point happy to dive into further questions. If we need to screen share or do anything with LinkedIn, I am happy to do that as well.

Kai Davis:               Excellent. Excellent presentation, my friend. Awesome, awesome material. A number of great questions came in. Should we just jump into them here and if screen sharing is necessary, add that in?

Jake:                         Yeah, that sounds good.

Kai Davis:               Excellent. So the first question that came up, if people say they were all booked and have enough clients, how do you know when to probe further about potentially finding better clients?

Jake:                         Yeah. So if I'm doing outreach and kind of the, this lead generation capacity and kind of what if, if someone says, "Hey, I'm booked up, I've got plenty of clients already." A lot of times I'm going to say that I could probe further and just kind of try to keep asking questions. In some cases if, and a lot of those cases, some of those I might ask like, "Oh, well are those the exact clients that you need or do you ever need any more? In the future or to build up your pipeline further?" So it's just kind of what feels natural for the conversation. But I would really just kind of keep nurturing and just asking questions off of that and just see if you can kind of keep them engaged and build that further. But in some cases it may just mean they're not interested in what you're doing, but I see if you can position it around the better client's thing, then that could be another angle, right angle to go as well.

Kai Davis:               Completely agreed. I absolutely love that approach. I always find that when I encounter an objection, if I'm able to turn it around, turn it into a question, get them to elaborate on it, it often finds out or turns out that it's not so much an objection as it is, oh just additional information and there might be a way for us to work together. But it takes that step up asking that clarifying question and moving the conversation forward and not just saying, "Ah they said, no, let's stop."

Jake:                         Exactly, yeah it's just always trying to find just ... even attempting to get around, that could just be them saying they're not interested or it could, like you said, could be something that you can overcome or just kind of, another way to get around that. So I love that approach.

Kai Davis:               So here's another question, would this work for a new business that does not have a track record in their target market?

Jake:                         Yeah, so one of the things that I love about this or a cold email is I'm a big believer that cold email or LinkedIn outreach are really great ways to validate a niche. And so I might ... because there's a lot of people where they get started in a niche and it's just because it's all people that they've gotten through referrals. But then they try to get clients through outreach and their messaging just isn't resonating. So my belief is if you can get a customer through outreach, then you've got a great value proposition. Because it takes a really good value proposition to get outreach to convert and respond. I would highly recommend using this kind of approach or even cold email to kind of validate that new level, that new niche or approach.

Jake:                         So I think it's a great angle to kind of test out our work there. Even on our side, we're consistently trying to further nail down our buyer persona. And recently we said, "Okay, let's try management consultants of companies 11 to 50 and look at the principles of those firms." Thinking that would be a good fit. And we actually found out after about a month and a half of doing this, we're like, "Wow, we're actually getting worse results than when we were targeting agency owners." So it's just interesting learnings like that. But I look at outreach as just a phenomenal way to test a market's approach to a nation. So.

Jake:                         ... nominal way to test the market's approach to a nation, so try running it for about a month, month and a half, and by that time you should be getting a decent gut feel of how that's doing with a specific market. If it works, double down on it. If it doesn't, you know, pivot and try something different.

Kai Davis:               I absolutely love your answer there. The fact that you give such a specific timeline, like give it a month and a half to test out, that's perfect. I think that's such a great timeframe to say like, "Okay, are we getting results? We're getting kind of results? Are we getting no results?" You're able to assess at that time point. I absolutely, absolutely love that.

Kai Davis:               Let me see here. Another question that come that's come in, how many people do we want to find under our ideal search criteria, when we're looking in LinkedIn Sales Navigator?

Jake:                         If you go full speed at this and you do this five days a week, at 100 a day, you can go through about 2000 people a month. So you can do a pretty, pretty hefty volume, if you go full speed. Really, it's up to how fast you want to go with this and how much time you're going to put into it. Then also, I really kind of recommend just looking at trying to build almost tiers of targeting.

Jake:                         Whenever we're doing strategy for our clients, we're looking at okay, like what is tier one? This is the best buyers, like the perfect fit. I just get that as close as I can, and that might only be 1500 prospects. We're going to go through that pretty quickly, but then we go to tier two, which is kind of that next level of it, which might be a little bit broader or something like that. I don't think there's any perfect number there, but I would say, just get as narrow as you can on the first go at it, and then just kinda keep expanding out from there.

Kai Davis:               It's very much an iterative experimental process. We start with a hypothesis and an assumption. We test it, see what happens and reevaluate and iterate on there.

Jake:                         Yep, exactly.

Kai Davis:               Let's see here. What advice do you have when it comes to creating that value proposition? Somebody left me a wonderful question in the chat. It's a bit too long to read and full, but it boils down to how should you frame your value proposition statement, if you have a large amount of experience in different areas? How should you know what to focus in on? If there's any resources or other experts you'd recommend people check out for an answer to this, please feel free.

Jake:                         Yeah, definitely. The framework that I've always used to just keep it really simple is, I help X do or accomplish Y through Z. I help whoever your target market is do or accomplish whatever that benefit that you're bringing them is. Then through Z, which is like the way you're doing that.

Jake:                         Phillip Morgan, who we're both friends with, has a ton of content on this positioning stuff. We've literally had several customers that have come, referred by him, and they've got their positioning all tightened up and then they do great with us. But that's kind of like for the people that are just looking for the quick fix or a quick way to test it, that I help X do or accomplish Y through Z, because I think a great framework to start with, and there's obviously a lot deeper you can go into positioning.

Jake:                         That's the framework I use, and if you've got a ton of expertise then I would really look at, where do you have work you're really proud of?  Where is an industry that you want to focus on, that you're actually interested in and could see yourself being a specialist in? Like, you would be happy to go stand on a stage or put a stake out there and say, "Hey, I'm specialized in this space."

Jake:                         One of our clients who is trying to figure this out recently, and he was almost going to specialize in the financial industry because he had all these financial clients. Then at the end, he's like, "No, no, it's just not me. I just don't love finance." He ended up specializing in React Native, and it's like, "Oh, okay, well let's work it." He's a coder and not a financial guy. He just happened to have a ton of financial experience.

Jake:                         Some of it's getting, what's authentic to you? Then it's also just putting the message out there in the market and testing it. You can dream up millions and millions of things in a silo, but until you actually put your message out there in the market and see how it responds, and again, Outreach is a great way to test it, then you can't really know if it's resonating or not.

Kai Davis:               I like that a lot, and I completely agree. I think for anybody that has a large amount of experience or has worked with a number of verticals in the saying, "You know, I have some challenges niching down to where I've worked with these four different verticals. What should I focus on first? Or who should I focus on? Or do I even focus on somebody?"

Kai Davis:               At least in my opinion, picking one, the people who most resemble the clients you want to work with longterm, as you put it, you want to put that stake out there saying, "Hey, I specialize with X." Focus on that first. Give it that good six week time trial. See what types of results you get, and then, hey, if it doesn't jive with you, if it doesn't feel like a good fit, move forward to that next specialization on the list or that next target market on the list and run through the system, see how it works and see how it connects with you.

Jake:                         I agree. That's awesome.

Kai Davis:               So with Sales Navigator, what criteria do you personally use for qualification other than vertical industry? The person asking the question notes that, they've noticed employee count isn't usually that accurate. Private companies don't post revenue numbers. How do you go through that qualifying criteria phase?

Jake:                         Yeah. This might be a good time to actually screen share. I could pull up a little bit and just show us some tricks in there, which might actually just be helpful for anyone who hasn't use Sales Navigator before. So let me just get this pulled up real quick, and I'll just kind of build a quick search queue on the fly here, with everybody.

Kai Davis:               That'd be wonderful. Last time Jake stepped through this, it was eyeopening, highlighted the presentation for me.

Jake:                         Awesome. We will ... All right, can you all see my screen?

Kai Davis:               It just popped up for me.

Jake:                         Okay, awesome. So basically, the first thing I do is, I typically choose my second and my third connections, so I don't accidentally message anybody who I'm buddies with already. Then you can choose your location. Let's for this say, we want to target Oregon and go after people in the state of Oregon.

Kai Davis:               Beautiful state.

Jake:                         I thought so too, or I can do Nevada. That'd be better, Kai.

Jake:                         But basically, then what I would do from there, you can target industries. Let's say for this, we want to go after digital marketing agencies. So I choose the marketing and advertising industry, and I want to go after this, 11 to 50 person companies, and then we'll say we want to go after ... right now I'm just gonna say CEO, and then I'll explain this more in a second.

Jake:                         But on the previous question, there's a lot of things that happen here with LinkedIn that create false positives. So what can happen here is, you can have some of these people, that they work at a company with 11 to 50 employees, but then they're also the CEO of their one person, a solo consultancy.

Jake:                         So sometimes you get these false positives that come through because LinkedIn is kind of this self-selecting network, and that typically happens a lot when people have multiple job positions listed. They're often kind of freelancing on the side of another full-time opportunity. So that's just one thing to share is that with LinkedIn, you're going to have people that come through that are not always the right fit, and that they're kind of just sneak through from this.

Jake:                         Another thing, let's say I wanted to go, and I wanted to target specifically digital marketing agencies. I could go in here, and I could put digital marketing in quotation marks, and that again drops me down to an even smaller sample size here. So basically, now I'm targeting CEOs of digital marketing agencies, with between 11 to 50 employees.

Jake:                         Again, a lot of those decision makers probably actually have different titles. They probably don't always just go by CEO. So one of the really cool things you can do here is, you can make these statements where I can say CEO or I'll say Chief Executive Officer. Help if I spelled executive right, and not offer or officer. I can say, or President or Partner or Founder or Co-Founder.You can kind of come up with all these different titles or different things there.

Jake:                         I could say, I don't want someone's assistant or intern or anything like that. You can kind of come up with negative keywords, if you're getting people in there as well. What happens there is, literally, just kind of still looking at that same queue, we just now almost like, five X the amount of results we have, and there's all these people that kind of use different words, Founder or Partner or different ways to describe this position.

Jake:                         So again, basically, right here we've got a pretty select queue there. There will probably be some false positives that come through here. Some of them maybe aren't actually the right fit, but these actually all look pretty good.

Jake:                         This is one. Somehow professors tend to find their way through here, a decent amount. So if I was looking through these queues and I saw kind of a poor quality fit here, I would say, "Oh, okay. I definitely don't want professors in my thing." So I would say, negative word on professor.  Again, kind of gets them out of the queue, and it gets me more narrowed down. So if you start seeing people coming through that aren't a right fit, you can basically use those negative keywords to get them out there.

Jake:                         That's one piece again on that. Again, we could also say we want it to do like PPC agencies or something like that. We can get really, really specific with this. So keywords is another really interesting way to use that as well.

Jake:                         Now another really cool thing, I'll show you one more feature. These whole things that I'm doing here, with these parentheses, by using these nots or all of these pieces here is, I'm basically doing what's called a Boolean search queue. So that I just showed you, is one for like a partner, but what I can also do is, I could also say I want a VP or Vice President or a Director, and I close that parentheses, and marketing.

Jake:                         So what I'm going to get here is basically anyone who's got a VP, Vice President or Director in their titles, and marketing. So we've got a Director of Marketing, a VP of Marketing, Director of Digital Marketing, a Vice President of Media here, so Vice President of Marketing, Director of Digital Marketing Performance. So basically all these different keywords. If I just put Director of Marketing, I would miss this guy, because he's Director of Digital Marketing.

Jake:                         So kind of combining those and using the And feature here, which again, basically you just create your first set of parentheses with Ors. You close it and then you do an, and marketing. Then I could still say, if I scroll down, I don't want this. Membership is not a right fit, I could say, not membership, and exclude that person or those types of people from my search queue.

Jake:                         Again, you could then raise that up to the next tier of companies and everything like that, or open it up to new locations and everything. If I were to open this and say we weren't geographically specific, and I put that just in the United States, you'll see we've got 5.2000 results in all of the USA with that. So those are some of the really handy tricks there. I'm happy to dive further, or any other questions on that, but I thought that little SAles Navigator demo might be super useful for everybody

Kai Davis:               That is absolutely, absolutely awesome. At one question that comes to mind, the Boolean different search parameters, do you cover that in the Lead Cookie ebook?

Jake:                         There is a link to a YouTube video, and I actually have a blog post on my site that I can share the link to, in the chat here, but I do have ... Oh my God, how do I stop this?

Kai Davis:               I thought we just found a [inaudible 00:44:22].

Jake:                         Basically, I can drop that link in the chat here real quick. I've got a video that kind of goes through those Booleans and teaches that in a lot more in depth and everything there.

Kai Davis:               Excellent. Excellent. If you share that with me, I'll make sure it gets sent out to people who attend the webinar.

Jake:                         Yeah, sounds good.

Kai Davis:               Let me see what other questions come up. Let's end on this question actually, what's your take on LinkedIn paid ads versus LinkedIn Outreach?

Jake:                         Yeah, so LinkedIn paid ads, they are great, but they are really expensive. I've got a friend, AJ Wilcox, his agency has actually spent more on LinkedIn ads than any other agency out there, as far he knows or last we spoke.

Kai Davis:               Wow.

Jake:                         Basically what his advice is, if you're not willing to spend five grand a month, I don't even consider LinkedIn ads. You're literally looking at, I think like a minimum, a click of $8. So if you screw it up, it's really expensive.

Jake:                         You can get super targeted. Literally, their ads, you basically get access to LinkedIn Sales Navigator search queues. You can build a queue as small as 300 people and advertise to them. You can get, like really specific. You could literally say, "Okay, I want, the Vice Presidents of Marketing."  You could literally put companies that you want to target and market to like 300 VPs of Marketing at the exact list of companies you targeted. You can get super focused with it, but it's really expensive.

Jake:                         So I would say unless you've got a good budget for it, I think LinkedIn Outreach is kind of a lower cost way to approach things, starting off.

Kai Davis:               Wonderful, wonderful answer. I've always wondered about that myself, so excited to hear the differences between the two. That about takes us to time and wraps up all the questions for the webinar. Folks, thank you so much for joining me. Jake, thank you so much for joining me. This has been incredibly educational and informative. All I can do is, again, is say thank you. I hope everybody watching this and watching the replay takes a lot of lessons out of this webinar.

Jake:                         Yeah, definitely. If anyone has any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly. Happy to answer however I can or help you guys out if you need help. So yeah.